GAYLE KING: We are joined now by Samantha Power. She’s Administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development. She also served as the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations under President Barack Obama. Good morning to you Madam Ambassador, it’s really good to see you again.
ADMINISTRATOR POWER: Good to see you.
KING: I want to start with, you were at the border two weeks ago in Poland and Ukraine. You were there. I want to know what stood out to you at that time and what are your thoughts now, because as Nora just reported, the stream of people, especially women and children, is staggering.
ADMINISTRATOR POWER: Thanks Gayle. One thing to bear in mind, is we all think back to remember 2015, 2016. The flow of Syrians and Afghans into Europe. That was 2.5 million people over two years. We are now seeing 2.8 million people over two weeks, effectively. A little more than two weeks.
And what stood out for me is the same thing that I’m sure that is standing out for Nora, which is women and children, just disproportionately. You see almost no men, and then again, the pace of flow. The other thing that stands out, which we don’t always see in response to refugee crises, is the open hearts and open doors. Even on Twitter, I saw something this morning where a journalist was saying, “does anybody have room for a family of four, a woman and three kids?” And 50 responses with addresses and so forth. You’re just seeing that all around the world and all around Europe.
KING: The number of women and children, Madam Ambassador, does that pose a different kind of response, or a different kind of crisis to people who are handling this? And Nora also gave us reports about possible human trafficking, that’s also another layer.
ADMINISTRATOR POWER: Well, that’s one thing the United States is supporting - the efforts to counter that, so-called protection efforts. Making sure there are people keeping vigilant watch at the border when people who are at their absolute most vulnerable. The wave of refugees that are coming across now are often from Eastern Ukraine. Some of them have suffered war wounds, almost all of them are suffering trauma. That’s different than when I was there, when they were coming mainly from Western Ukraine. So that vulnerability poses a protection risk to be sure, and we just need to make sure that the international community has staffed up sufficiently so that people know what to avoid and that there are law enforcement and others around trying to hone in on any predators or people who would be taking advantage of this horrible situation.
TONY DOKOUPIL: Madam Ambassador, you’re right to point out the tremendous humanitarian spirit, the effort to help people coming over the border there, in Poland in particular. At the same time, some of the refugees I spoke with last week were worried that at some point the welcome will be worn out and I was wondering if you could talk a bit about on that subject, kind of the medium to long term challenge of handling the need of now nearly 3 million people coming into new countries.
ADMINISTRATOR POWER: It’s an overwhelming challenge. Many of the people again, especially in these later waves, don’t speak any language other than Ukraine. For the kids, they’re getting absorbed into European schools, it’s very beautiful, actually, to watch. For example, Italian kids yesterday, welcoming Ukrainian kids. And so that adjustment, now that Europe has decided to make school benefits, work benefits, healthcare benefits, available to people coming across, that part should be taken care of by Europe. But the longer term challenges, again these are women and children, the men are left behind, their hearts are breaking. They’re living in constant fear of the phone ringing and getting the worst possible news. And you don’t really start your family life when your family is separated in that way.
The other challenge, Tony, is just sheer numbers. I mean this goes well beyond even the worst-case projections that the UN and others had planned against. So the question of at what point do communities start to fill up, do homes no longer be able to offer that welcome mat because they’re already hosting a family. I mean, we are not that far from that point.
VLADIMIR DUTHIERS: Madam Ambassador, do you feel that the United States has a responsibility to also accept some of those refugees?
ADMINISTRATOR POWER: Well, as you know, we’ve already announced of course, that any Ukrainians who are here and were scheduled to leave, or their visas were expiring are welcome to stay. The Ukrainians I met with were very focused on staying close, because they all believe that they’re going to win and that they're going to be going home soon. So, so far, again, we haven’t heard an overwhelming desire on the part of Ukrainians to go further afield. But we’re going to look at everything to do our part of course, to respond to this truly once in generation humanitarian emergency.
DOKOUPIL: Madam Ambassador, you wrote a very famous book called, “The Problem From Hell” about genocide. Genocide is a term that Ukrainians are using to describe what Russia is doing to them. There are reports of cities encircled, civilians being starved out. When you think about the need for American intervention, could you walk us through how we should all be viewing this? Is there a point at which the crisis becomes so severe, the suffering so severe, that something more has to be done?
ADMINISTRATOR POWER: Well, I think what you’re seeing is the use of the tools in the toolbox to change Putin’s calculus and to get him to de-escalate from this horror that he’s inflicting on the Ukrainian people. Putin doesn’t seem to know how to fight another way, other than this way. This is the Grozny approach, this is the Aleppo approach that he took siding with Bashar al-Assad, and it’s horrific. And what we can do as an international community, led by the United States and Europe, but now joined by countries in Latin America and East Asia and beyond, is rally the world to impose sufficiently severe costs that Russia experiences a strategic defeat. But also that in these peace talks that the Ukrainians keep showing up for, wanting again and again to pursue a diplomatic path, a diplomatic resolution, that Russia shows up for these talks because of those costs, looking to de-escalate. And that hasn’t happened yet, obviously, but the combination of increased security assistance, humanitarian assistance that is flowing more and more now into Ukraine, the welcome that we offer Ukrainians who make it out of the country. That puts us in a position again, it’s not happening soon enough for anybody, but ultimately for this war to end.
KING: Alright Ambassador Power, we thank you for your time this morning.
ADMINISTRATOR POWER: Thanks Gayle.